Something wicked this way comes
Israel Hayom | Something wicked this way comes.
( In the end it will be the EU, not Israel which suffers from these economic sanctions. Believe it or not, the EU needs Israel more than the other way around. Once they wake up to that fact, let’s see whether their antisemitism or their economy is more important to them. In the meantime, FUCK THE EU ! – JW )
For Jerusalem, Europe this week became even less relevant in the negotiations with the Palestinians • The bigger problem is the trend that the EU’s settlement decision augurs for the future of Israel-Europe ties.
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EU foreign policy chief Catherine Ashton
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Photo credit: Reuters
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The late Francois Mitterand, France’s first socialist president, once said, “When Europe opens its mouth, it is only to yawn.”
Mitterand was only partially correct. When Europe opens its mouth, it is to comment on the goings on in the Middle East, particularly Israeli settlements. For the umpteenth time, we have rediscovered Old Europe.
Europe, the world’s most prominent paragon of morality, has trained its spotlight on us for a long time now. That is because from its standpoint, there is no more urgent problem than the settlements, this with all due respect to the 100,000 deaths in Syria, which it apparently can do nothing about.
This week, the European Union sprung into action. The European Commission’s Middle East department, which is headed by Austrian diplomat Christian Berger, the EU’s former envoy to the Palestinian territories, published the document which bans all cooperation with Israeli entities based beyond the 1967 lines. Even if the EU decision doesn’t bind all its member states, the move was still met with tremendous anger in Jerusalem.
Aside from the outrageous and infuriating boycotts, this report also tries to establish a new political status quo as it relates to the state of Israel’s borders. More importantly, it signals a trend that is not promising, from Israel’s standpoint at least. For all intents and purposes, Europe has drawn Israel’s borders, without negotiations. From Europe’s point of view, U.S. Secretary of State John Kerry may as well stay home.
EU officials worked on this report in secret. A senior European diplomat joked two days ago that Israel was now paying the price of the strike declared by employees of the Foreign Ministry. In Jerusalem, however, officials see things slightly differently.
For months, it was known in Jerusalem that the Europeans were working on producing a document devoted to settlements. Foreign Ministry officials knew this. Obviously nobody anticipated a document that would encourage Israel to step up the pace of construction in Judea and Samaria, yet nobody in Israel expected a document that would split the country in two — those who are entitled to EU support and cooperation, and those lepers which Europe views as beyond the pale.
Israeli Embassy officials in Brussels who are charged with maintaining contact with the EU tried to fish out certain details of the document, but to no avail. Sources in Brussels said that a small coterie of diplomats in the European Commission’s Middle East Department denied anyone access to the document. “They worked in great secrecy,” a source told Israel Hayom.
The only hint the EU was willing to reveal was that the report would be written in the spirit of the declaration on the settlements issued by EU ministers in 2012. It was a hint of the bitter pill that was being concocted in Brussels, but officials in Jerusalem did not think it was a pill they couldn’t swallow.
Over a week ago, the report landed on the desk of David Walzer, Israel’s envoy to the EU. Walzer is an experienced diplomat who also served as ambassador to Denmark. He also headed the Foreign Ministry’s research department. The envoy immediately knew that Israel had a problem on its hands, even if the report was formulated with complex wording and legalese. It was, to say the least, a difficult read.
The report was quickly sent to the Foreign Ministry’s legal division. Soon afterward, the alarm bells began ringing. A briefing was convened by Deputy Foreign Minister Zeev Elkin. Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu was present as well.
“We weren’t caught by surprise,” said a Foreign Ministry source. “The report came to us late. We gave it the emergency treatment.”
Foreign Ministry technocrats brushed off suggestions that this was a diplomatic mishap that could have been avoided, or that the strike prevented key players in the ministry from doing the necessary work to minimize the crisis. The claims against the ministry officials uttered in the media angered them.
Europe is irrelevant
The Foreign Ministry’s other major problem, aside from the report authored by Christian Berger, was the lightning-quick Israeli reaction to the report, particularly by those in the press who were adamant that Israel needed to immediately stem the tide of this diplomatic tsunami washing over Israel.
This is undoubtedly a very grave decision. The responses from Jerusalem and the attempts by Netanyahu and Justice Minister Tzipi Livni to shelve the report attest to its seriousness. On Wednesday morning, news reports indicated that Netanyahu held a round of urgent phone calls with a number of European leaders.
Netanyahu appealed to them for help in postponing the publication of the new EU directives on settlements.
The directives are scheduled to be released today, and they are due to go into effect on Jan. 1, 2014. In an interview with the German daily Die Welt, Netanyahu blasted the EU decision, which he said “compelled Israelis to lose faith in the neutrality of Europe as it relates to the peace process.”
“This is an improper way of handling things,” the prime minister said.
Indeed, officials in Jerusalem had trouble comprehending the Europeans. On the one hand, they have expressed a desire to be more involved and wield greater influence in the Middle East. On the other hand, they are making every possible mistake. While governments in European capitals are putting the blame on EU bureaucrats, it was the EU member states that permitted this phenomenon to grow.
This is not the first time that the bureaucrats have demonstrated too much initiative, in effect embarrassing some of the EU members. The same problem reared its ugly head during the debate over whether to admit Turkey into the union. While governments in places like Berlin and Paris wanted to delay the process, the bureaucrats sought to speed up the proceedings. This is what happens when office clerks decide they want to call the shots, all the while forgetting that we are dealing with sovereign states.
In his talks with European leaders, Netanyahu says he was surprised to learn that many of them were themselves caught off guard and astonished by the ferocity of the report, which was authored and initialed by a tiny group of European Commission bureaucrats. Indeed, EU officials say the decision was made in accordance with a 2012 statement on settlements agreed to by the union’s foreign ministers. At the time, however, the decision was more “abstract.” The EU claims that what it did this week was to translate that 2012 decision into binding legal language. While it does not, heaven forbid, bind the countries, it does obligate the EU as an organization.
EU officials, however, are also aware that they are not Europe, and that they cannot dictate to Israel the contours of its borders, as the prime minister stated this week.
Netanyahu assailed the EU’s decision to condition future agreements with Israel on Israeli recognition that Judea, Samaria, east Jerusalem, and the Golan Heights are occupied territory. The premier claimed that he was surprised the EU was so preoccupied with settlements instead of what was taking place in Syria, or instead of busying itself with stopping Iran’s nuclear program.
For Jerusalem, Europe this week became even less relevant in the negotiations with the Palestinians. It is reasonable to assume that the EU will once again be on the sidelines watching in frustration as the U.S. takes the leading role.
Don’t expect gifts
On Monday, EU foreign ministers are expected to participate in a meeting in Brussels. One can reasonably expect that this issue will be brought forth for discussion. Officials in Jerusalem are hopeful that a few of the states will reconsider the timing of the report’s publication. Foreign Ministry sources say that Germany, Bulgaria, Romania, Holland, or the Czech Republic may ultimately save the day.
Others, however, are fearful that countries like Belgium, Sweden, Luxembourg, Ireland, Austria, or Spain may see the extent to which the document unnerved Jerusalem. As such, they would consequently praise its publication, and may even seek to advance it further. If it wasn’t clear until now, the European Union is not that united.
The Europe of today has limited means. The EU is incapable of setting the agenda, but it certainly can thwart diplomatic efforts that are afoot, like those of Secretary of State John Kerry, who is working to get the Israeli-Palestinian peace talks back on track. How ironic that Tisha B’av, of all the dates on the calendar, is the day on which the Europeans issue a report that will only encourage the Palestinians to harden their positions before the renewal of talks, this at a time when Kerry is showing clear signs of optimism (even if his optimism is misplaced).
There are those in Jerusalem who believe that the EU wanted to embarrass Israel. That is why its foreign policy chief, Catherine Ashton, did not mention the report’s imminent publication during her visit to the country a month ago. Some, however, think that the bureaucrats at the Middle East Division of the European Commission concealed the contents of the report from her.
“Israel needs to be concerned about this report,” a European official with close ties to the EU and who was present at some of the discussions told Israel Hayom. “This report proves to us that the diplomatic and bureaucratic revolution in Europe has begun. What has happened is that instead of governments dictating to other countries, the bureaucrats are creating facts on the ground, and these facts are forcing governments to assume a policy that needs to be managed. Since I know many diplomats and bureaucrats at the EU, I can say that Israel shouldn’t be expecting any gifts from them.”
It is difficult to gauge the extent of the economic damage that will be caused by the decision. The bigger problem is the direction and the trend that the decision augurs for the future and what effect it will have on assistance granted to Israeli organizations. The problem is that Europe decided to partition Israel on its own volition.
The report’s publication may even give Europeans pause before deciding whether to work with Israelis, whether they are archaeologists at the Hebrew University who are interested in conducting excavations in east Jerusalem or lecturers at Haifa University, which has a branch in the Golan Heights town of Katzrin. There will likely be numerous interpretations of the report, but the spirit of the report is worrying to Jerusalem.
Israel does not receive charity from the EU. It pays the union to participate in joint projects. There is, however, an important project known as Horizon 2020, a joint venture in the field of technology and science. Israeli officials are worried over the repercussions of the report and how it will affect this important project.
So what happened this week? Was it “economic terrorism,” as Economy and Trade Minister Naftali Bennett referred to it? Was it an “earthquake” or a “tsunami,” as the headlines blared in a number of newspapers?
One would not be far off, but what we witnessed was something far worse. It was the manifestation of a European trend to perceive the settlements as an obstacle to peace (which is nothing new). It was Brussels’ expression of a desire to cut Israel down to size. It seems that erstwhile colonialists are the only ones capable of spotting “new colonialists” like Israel — that colossus of a colonialist that is the size of the state of New Jersey.
WarSclerotic 
July 19, 2013 at 3:21 PM
No point i n kidding yourself JW the eu does not need israel nor will israel damage the EU economy,how could a country with a GDP of a small European city hurt the eu economically,the EU sees israel as the source of the problem,i should expect more as it is Obama pushing,With the Germans at the front as usual
July 19, 2013 at 3:44 PM
Justice…
Israel is # 3 in the hi tech world, already. #1 in the world exporting drones. #5 in the world exporting arms.
We’re a joke of a postage stamp country, and yet…
Jews have always been a laughably small segment of world population, and yet Christianity and Islam both came out of it.
Here’s one little impact on the EU if they proceed with their anti Semitic agenda.
http://www.timesofisrael.com/israel-threatens-to-quit-eus-flagship-innovation-project-over-new-restrictions/
Many more to follow.
I repeat, “FUCK THE EU ! “
July 19, 2013 at 4:11 PM
No one could agree more with fuck the EU the EU is a waite of space time and the UKs money i should add that the uk is tottaly opposed to this, i am pointing out there motives they have no perception UKIP is the uks answer
July 19, 2013 at 10:00 PM
I am tired of whining and begging, what action wil the govt take. It should cease all eu projects and funding to the arabs in YS and embark on a massive jewish settlement program. How else can the libel of illegal jewish settlement be demonstrated as false. itt is Israels fault and the only reacton must be less begging and more action. It is Israel that has never repudiated the libels. I dont want to hear more of BB’s BS.
July 19, 2013 at 10:09 PM
Bernard…
“Speak softly, carry a big stick.”
It may not be your approach, but as it’s a cliche supported by the likes of Sun Tzu, it can hardly be fairly classified as “BS.”
It’s easy to be an “armchair PM.” Be glad you’re not the real thing.
July 19, 2013 at 3:27 PM
Every Jew should note that the Europeans issued this report on Tish B’av. I echo your sentiments JW
July 19, 2013 at 3:32 PM
Don’t try to understand the hypocrisy, suicidal stupidity and moral depravity of the ruling European bureaucrats.
As an European I’m disgusted by it.
While Turkey still illegally occupies northern Cyprus (an EU-member country) since its invasion of 1974 they are negotiating with the Turks about their EU-membership.
Moreover these immoral morons pressured the Cypriots to accept the so-called “Annan peace plan” which violates existing EU-law and basic human rights.
Thankfully the Cypriots rejected this shameful “peace plan”.
F…..ing hypocrites!!!
July 19, 2013 at 4:17 PM
We can stand the antisemitism, we’ll overcome the sanctions, you can hate us, but, please, don’t show the baroness’ photo to us. That will be too much.
July 19, 2013 at 4:23 PM
A good measuring stick of Israel’s economic ranking in the world is by per capita GNP (Gross National Product). It puts differing populations on the same footing while revealing the true output of their people.
Israel is ranked 26. Not bad when you consider Spain is ranked 27, Russia is ranked 47, and China is 86. In fact, Israel is not that far behind many EU countries and ahead of some.
For a ‘joke of a postage stamp country’, that’s not bad at all. In fact, the world would benefit from having a country such as Israel expand in population as well as physical size.
July 19, 2013 at 5:13 PM
Hi JW,
When I read the reports about EU hypocrisy and morality failure and anti-Semitism, I get nausea.
Jews have contributed to the advancement of the humanity and Western civilization much more than their share. In return, they received Holocaust from the criminal Europeans and the rest of Europe from a catholic pope to Russian communists/ Atheists turned blind eye and kept their mouths shut.
Jews with a population of less than one fifth of one percent of the world population have won one third of all Noble prizes in science since the beginning. There could have been more prizes if there wouldn’t have been prejudice .
The power of Israel originates from the brain of its people, no matter how small Israel is.
Meanwhile, I share your &%$#@* word about EU.
July 19, 2013 at 5:29 PM
Kayvan….
Believe it or not, it’s our Torah (aka the Bible), not our brains that has made all the difference not only for us but for half the planet whose societies are built around it.
Your words warm my heart. I thank you for your recognition and appreciation of my people.
Joe
July 19, 2013 at 6:09 PM
Joe,
I agree with you that Torah is the foundation of humanity with its braodest and deepest meaning. Without Torah, human being would have been at the stage of Neanderthal culture.
I may sound outlandish, but I am confident that many honest Middle Easterns feel the same about Israel.
The common people of the Middle East are goaded and blinded by their corrupt leaders and the hypocritical policies of the west.
But the truth will be revealed to all one day soon.
Till that time, let the Moon shine and the dogs bark.
God bless Israel and the Jews
July 19, 2013 at 6:29 PM
Well lets see how Israel ranks without US aid dollars… Israel should not be a sovereign state, moreover a US state…. they can get nothing on their own… and they keep nagging about it…they brag about their tech level?? how many Israeli spies were caught in the US?? and more are still functional… wonder where they got their drone tech from??
July 19, 2013 at 7:21 PM
Tony…
I won’t respond with facts and figures for the simple reason that I don’t want to disabuse you of your opinion of Israel as a “techno-fraud.” Spread your message far and wide…
Thanks for caring.
July 19, 2013 at 8:21 PM
I would like to hear your facts… I know Israeli defense industry is advanced… but it wouldn’t exist if there were no aid from the US… Israel sold 13bn$ worth of weapons from 2004-2011… the US gave Israel more than 15 bn$ worth of military aid… and most Israeli defense industry projects are funded by the US… Iron dome?? all US money… one day the americans will stop funding then what? you will go back to your countries in europe?
July 19, 2013 at 7:45 PM
Good people here have spoken about the Good Book -The Torah, or The Old Testament – and its importance for the humanity. Its been considered, from the dawn of the ancient civilizations, the Words of The Living God, which is true. But one thing, the nations of the world have forgot: who were the keepers of this Book, who were the first to keep Its Mitzvot – God Orders – and who spoke the words of the Book everywhere and all the time. Those Keepers were the Jewish People and the Humanity has a great debt to this people for not letting the Words to be forgotten; Because, you see, a good book, as great as it can be, is of no use if it remains in the library and no one is opening it. The Book People did just that and we want to hope that the Humanity will come in time to its senses for being grateful to those who not only kept that Book and opened It, but also read from this Book every day, all those centuries, with a loud voice, for all the nations of the world being able to get the message.
Jesus Himself was a Jew and died on the cross as a Jew by the hands of the Romans. All of His short live upon the Earth He spoke Torah, He explained Torah and lived by Torah. He also never dreamed that 6 (six) million people of His kind will be exterminated one day by the same nations He wanted so hard to teach the Word.
Lets all hope that the humanity has learn something from the tragic lessons of the History and will not forget – again – this people, the Jewish People.
July 19, 2013 at 8:01 PM
Thank you, Shabbat Shalom
July 19, 2013 at 8:04 PM
Well said, Luis. As a Roman Catholic, I too worship the God of Israel.
July 19, 2013 at 8:08 PM
I thank you, and may God bless us all.
July 19, 2013 at 11:06 PM
Well Steve, just for you to know, you worship the god of israel?? christians muslims and jews worship the same god… But Jews consider themselves the chosen people… and everyone else on this planet are below them ( Goyim?? right Joseph?) just because they believe in the story of abraham who came from mesopotamia, and told everyone like 4000 years ago that god told him this land is yours…. but people were already living there… and the were not jews. Imagine now, some chinese dude says that god told him, that his promise land is the USA, and he writes his own book, gets followers and makes wars to clear his promise land from american citizens… Ironic? right?
July 20, 2013 at 12:28 AM
Are you serious?? the romans killed jesus?? and the jews had nothing to do with it?? did you ever read the new testament?? if you did not, then you are not a christian…
July 20, 2013 at 12:45 AM
The Romans arrested Him with the approval of the Sanhedrin, the highest council of priests in that time. The Romans crucified Him, and not those priests, even that they were afraid of Him and having a certain interest in His death. But, sir, you cannot blame the entire jewish people for the will of their priests, at that time. This, sir, is called ” lets tell the history our way” for other people to swallow the biggest lie of all times; even the Pope Himself made it clear that not the jews were those who killed Jesus.
July 20, 2013 at 2:24 AM
I can’t believe to hear the same old BS again.
The facts:
1. Jesus was a Jew
2. Jesus’ first followers were Jews
3. Jesus’ brother James, leader of the first church in Jerusalem was a Jew
4. Jesus had to die in order to bring salvation to the whole world.
5. So no matter who would kill him, he had to die to fulfil his mission.
6. If the Greeks had killed him, would you hate the Greeks?
7. Some or many (depending on ones view) other Jews incited by the Sanheddrin wanted Jesus to be crucified.
8. The Romans crucified Jesus.
And now comes the most important part.
9. Jesus loved His Jewish brothers so much that He said: “Father forgive them, for they know not what they do”.
How can you love Jesus (a Jew) and hate his brothers (all Jews) at the same time?
You cannot truly be a Christian and hate Jews at the same time.
Now, we differ with our Jewish brothers whether Jesus is the Messiah or not.
But to hate them is like hating Jesus.
In fact, to hate any human is like hating Jesus.
We should hate evil but not the evildoers because they are the slaves of evil whether they know it or not.
I confess that I myself fall often very short of what I said,
But that does not change the truth of it.
July 19, 2013 at 11:47 PM
Tony, Tony, where have you been until now? You are making interesting points that need special attention, and they will get it.
1.How old is this hypothetic Chinese book that you are bringing here like an contra example to the old bible? Could be this ”Chinese new testament” thousands of years old? If not, don’t bring here, to us, your poor ”mind theories” because , sir , you are insulting us.
2.The Jews don’t consider other people inferior to them, that’s what people like you want others to believe. In the very moment you are postulating this aberration, sir, you got your place among the Jews haters and your place, sir, is not good.
3.Regarding the promised land to Abraham, sir, its indeed a very old story and a very good written too. And its the only story in the market sir, and nobody until now, didn’t came up with something similar or to contradict this story. May be that Chinese dude of yours will thing up something, but we have heavy doubts.
4.Next time you are going to spill here your ”intellectual” anti-Semitic sh!t, go first and learn from some Iranians monkeys. We’ve heard they reached the stars so, who knows, you may learn a thing or two from them.
Don’t feel obliged to answer to my comment. We’ll understand if you wont. I want to apologize to Joseph if my lines are too hard, but reading something like that could not pass through us like nothing happened .
July 20, 2013 at 12:23 AM
Luis, I presume you are a christian?? anyway jews believe that they are the chosen people of god… so as a christian, according to jews, I am not chosen by god… too bad for me?? check this out
http://www.davidduke.com/?p=20065
about the chinese dude, it was a joke… just like abraham’s promised land story… how naive… and what is this anti-semite issue?? I have no problem with jews, they have a problem with almost everyone on earth… their problem is just that they really believe they are god’s chosen people… so everything they do is justified for them… and they control media in the west, they wont let you think.
July 20, 2013 at 1:29 AM
Don’t worry. You are chosen …
… by satan.
July 19, 2013 at 11:57 PM
…Only now I paid attention to this line of the same ”tony” :”one day the americans will stop funding then what? you will go back to your countries in europe?” Joseph, with all my respect, these are the kind of lines we want to read here? The lines of an anti-Semitic degenerate that fall upon us from so many other anti-Semitic porno forums on the web? I enjoy this respectable forum for at least two years already, but its the first time I read something like this.
July 20, 2013 at 12:35 AM
I hope Joseph will clean the stables here, because the website which this ”tony” is bringing up to us here is by David Duke, ” David Ernest Duke is an American activist and writer, a former Grand Wizard of the Knights of the Ku Klux Klan, and former Republican Louisiana State Representative ”. I think is very nice we got here such a representative, to share with us what he really thinks about those nasty jews.
July 20, 2013 at 8:17 AM
Tony….
This site is not about Jews, pro or con. It’s about the Iran/Israel conflict.
Please limit your comments to things that relate to the topic.
July 20, 2013 at 1:19 AM
There are some things I want to set strait here.
1. Kayvan’s idea of “European criminals”
2. The ramblings of Monsieur Tony
I’m pissed when I hear people talking about European criminals.
I’m the last one to deny what happened in Europe during the Nazi era or what happens today.
Have you forgotten that the Holocaust was a German Idea?
It was not a European Idea.
Do you blame the European countries that fought against Germany and Italy for the Holocaust?
Countries like Greece, France, Britain, Yugoslavia, Poland
fought against the axis suffering immense loss of human live.
Most of them where ultimately occupied by Germany which executed their diabolical plans in these countries.
What the hell do you these countries accuse of?
Now, antisemitism was widespread in Europe at that time but in most of the European countries only few had the idea to exterminate all Jews.
It was in few countries where a big portion of the population where only too happy to help the Germans wipe out the Jews like the Ustasha in Croatia and the Hanjar division of the Bosnian muslims.
Others like the Danes tried to protect their Jews and even fascist Roman Catholic Italy did not kill their Jews until Italy was occupied
by the Germans. Even then the Italians refused to cooperate so that in the end much fewer Italian Jews were killed compared to other countries.
It would help to make a very minimal study of the historical facts before making such broad accusations.
Now to Monsieur Tony.
Jews have made a very big contribution to science, medicine, arts, philosophy and culture.
In fact no other group has made greater contributions relative to their own size than the Jews.
For your information, this was the case before the state of Israel even existed. Just one name: Einstein.
This shows that American money has nothing to do with it.
You know, there are many countries getting billions of dollars from the US every year. Egypt, Pakistan and a bunch of others.
When did you last hear of the Egyptian or Pakistani high tech industry? Yep, did you ever wonder why?
The land that was promised by God to the Israelites was inhabited by the Caananites.
So what?
Neither the Caananites nor the Philistines has anything to do with modern day “Palestinians”.
The “Palestinians” are descendends of the invading Muslim Arabs or Christians who converted to Islam.
July 20, 2013 at 1:53 AM
Sure Einstein made important contributions… and a lot of jewish minds… so did other people from other religions… its not like they are something special… they are just advertised better. they own all the media. Einstein was a genius, but when he went to the USA he became more famous, why?? Israel gets ten times what egypt and pakistan get. dont even compare them…
Anyway, if Fiji gets the same amount of money Israel has been getting, They would have a more advanced tech than Israel today… you really think Israeli’s are smart?? so not only they are god’s chosen people, now they are god’s smartest people too??
The Land that was inhabited by the Canaanites so what?? who the hell gave them the right to take the land of others?? based on some story?? with no archaeological evidence of anything… that is extremely naiive… Palestinians are not descendants of muslims, they are the real people who owned the land, but became muslims later…
July 20, 2013 at 2:38 AM
Your problem is an inferiority complex and an irrational hatred of the Jews. If you were honest to yourself you would admit it.
Why else would you apply different standards to them than you do to others.
“who the hell gave them the right to take the land of others”
You see, almost any country in the world has taken at some point in time the land of others. Why blame only Israel?
I realize that no amount of rational arguments can change your view.
Ask yourself: Do I want to justify my hate or do I want to know the truth wherever it may lead me?
July 20, 2013 at 9:38 AM
Tony, enough with your bullshit arguments and theories.
I’ll refute them one by one but then I won’t bother to occupy myself with such nonsense anymore.
We have given you too much attention already
You state that the Jews have made no more contributions than others. False.
Fact is they made a disproportionate amount of contributions.
You claim that they just advertised it better because they own all the media. False.
Fact is that neither you nor anyone who claims such bullshit have ever presented any evidence for this.
You claim that if other countries had received the same money as Israel they would have the same high tech sector or even a better one. False.
Bullshit again. The fact that countries like Saudia Arabia which are practically swimming in money have contributed little more than camel jockeys, public amputations and the infamous Ferrari shopping sprees proves that you are wrong and that money alone is not sufficient.
Are Israelis smart? Absolutely yes. They had to be smart to survive 2000 years of constant persecution.
Are they the smarter then everybody else? Don’t think so. But maybe, just maybe they work harder then anybody else. Did this ever cross your mind?
That in itself makes them special.
You claim that the “Palestinians” are the real people who owned the land. False.
Prior to 1967 they referred to themselves as Arabs not as “Palestinians”. The Arabs came from, guess where, Arabia.
You spout the same bullshit as any good Jewhater that there is no archeological evidence.
Dude, the Holy Land is full of archeological evidence of the Jewish presence from the time of king David to the present day.
You complain that the Israelites took the land of the Caananites.
WTF. I don’t here you whining about the Romans invading Gaulle, the Normanns invading Britain or the Greeks invading Persia.
The fact that you care only about the Caananites or the “Palestinians” shows only that you are a hypocrite with a “special love” for Israel and the Jewish people.
That was the whole purpose of my “silly” argument.
Anyway, I’ve proven conclusively that Israel’s success as a high tech country did not depend on US dollars.
July 20, 2013 at 1:32 AM
Religion, what an interesting concept. There are many of them on this tiny planet of ours. All religions honesty believe they are following the path. Some say, believe as we do or we’ll chop off your head. Others say, believe as we do or you’re doomed to burn in hell. Religions of all flavors were begun eons ago by men who lived in clay huts, who knew nothing about the universe they lived in. You see, they knew they were correct because god spoke to them.
For the most part we have the religion we have due to the randomness of birth. A bible thumping preacher born it th US Midwest, could have been a Hindu if born in India for example.
We now exist in the 21st century and know much more about things than the originators of most religions.
Honestly, I know some people who say there is no god, I know others who claim there is a god, no doubt about it. I wonder how anybody could claim for certain one way or the other.
Some believe the concept of god was created by the ancients to give hope and make sense of the unknowable.
I for one believe we do not know what’s possible, therefore anything is possible.
I just which there wasn’t so much killing in the name of religion…
July 20, 2013 at 2:54 AM
Religion per se is not the problem.
Even Atheism is a religion (they just replaced God by nature).
Even in atheistic regimes like Soviet Russia or China humans died by the millions.
The main problems of ANY world view are:
1. My way or the high way
2. The use of the world view to justify any crime
To prevent #2 from happening there is a set of absolute rules like the universal human rights required.
This set of rules has to trump any world view.
July 20, 2013 at 7:23 PM
Artaxes, I concur! Why not write some up and have the group hash them around.
July 20, 2013 at 3:45 AM
@ artaxes: No, atheism is NOT a religion, it is the LACK of religion. Religion requires faith, and a system of beliefs, atheism does not require faith or belief, it relies upon established scientific fact, or, in some cases, theory; for example, you don’t have to have faith that the earth is hundreds of millions of years old, and not mearly 6000 years, it’s a verifiable, established fact.
July 20, 2013 at 5:00 AM
Position of theism: There is a God.
Position of atheism: I don’t believe in God.
Since an atheist cannot PROVE that there is no God he cannot honestly say that he KNOWS that there is no God.
Therefore an atheist BELIEVES that there is no God.
Ironically atheism requires more faith than theism.
The Big Bang theory which is universally accepted tells us that 13.7 billion years ago space, time and matter exploded literally out of nothing.
We know that:
– Out of nothing nothing comes.
– Anything that exists, exists either by necessity or it came into being.
– Anything that comes into being has a cause
– The universe came into being.
– Therefore the universe has a cause
This first cause must by necessity be uncaused, uncreated, spaceless, timeless, immaterial, omnipotent and have a free will.
While the theist can point to God as the first cause the atheist is required to believe that the universe came into being out of nothing without any cause.
Sorry, I don’t have THAT MUCH faith.
July 20, 2013 at 11:29 AM
Hi Artaxes, I always read your comments and I learn a lot,
Just to make my point clear;
By ” criminal Europeans” I did not mean that all Eurpeans were criminlas. Here the adjective is a limiting factor, I mean to say those Europeans who committed that horrific crime were criminals.
Maybe my English is weak which created this misunderstanding.
July 20, 2013 at 1:01 PM
dont rise to spasticus i know we often argue but were friends and he is wrong you believe in something that’s better than just believing in hate he is a fascist which you are not taxes
July 20, 2013 at 4:08 PM
Kayvan, thanks for your clarification. Sorry that I misunderstood you. Yes, all those who did that were even worse than criminals.
July 20, 2013 at 4:20 PM
Thanks, Justice
July 20, 2013 at 12:57 PM
its says that the earth is billions of years old in the torah,in fact what was suprizeing is it gets the date wrong any jew will tell you that the word yom,means a passing of time not a day so you cant use that argument,and spasticus is full of dribble,and he is right there may well be a god,there are different faiths on here,they all believe there god is the true god,I dont always agree with taxes but at least he believes in something that’s decent,spasticus just belives in prejudice and hate,I offer you proof of the true god TIG or TYR he is alive all over the world we see his work every day,Now hows that for ironym None of you can offer real proof like that Pagans win,but as far as this goes taxes is right
July 20, 2013 at 8:59 AM
I wander how much rope this KKK propagandist will get here to spread his lies about the Jews, the ”grabbing of land from Palestinians” in the Bible times which is a stupid historical lie. And Joseph, he don’t speak about pro or con about jews, he continues to spread his poisoned words here in a rather obvious manner. The site he was quoting was of a former KKK American high rank. This is what we want to see here?
July 20, 2013 at 9:11 AM
No it isn’t.
Tony, couth up the act, or you are history.
No hate speech allowed. No personal attacks either.
July 20, 2013 at 10:02 AM
Making generalizations about “Jews” is racist per se.
Nobody else is “enjoying” your remarks.
You were answered on your question about Israeli Tech. That was legitimate, and is the reason I allowed you to post here.
Knock off the “Jews” stuff if you want to remain.
July 20, 2013 at 10:14 AM
Even that I take no joy anymore for answering ”tony”, one thing must be clarified right now : Hate speech, sir, wasn’t, indeed, but what you are doing is an anti-Semitic, well written covered propaganda and this is dangerous, because it was not intended to us but to simple people, for whom the History is not their cup of tea. Your are not delivering hate speeches, sir. What you are serving here, to us, are poisoned speeches and if we don’t want to hear that in our world anymore is not because of you, personally, but because somebody else already did that and you know who I am talking here about ( our Austrian common friend of ours, perhaps? ). We are not ready to let that History to happen in our world all over again. This is why, sir, with all my kindness and respect, I strongly advice you to take your sophisticated anti-Semitic propaganda to better and bigger places, because this is not why we are here for.
July 20, 2013 at 1:03 PM
ill put a price on his head if he keeps it up
July 21, 2013 at 7:46 PM
I am flabbergasted at the total surprise the of the israeli foreign ministry.Ms Ashton gave many declarations she is a rabid anti-jewish bitch.Now time is ripe for a no-gloves fight with the EU arrogant nazi-style ” nicht kaufen bei juden”.The Judge Edmond Levy panel issued a numbers of actions to rein in the NGO activities hostile to Israel.It is very urgent to apply those reccomendations and pass a law framing the hostile NGO, their staff, their funding, their activity. If Israeli leadership does not understand the anti-jewish deep hatred motivation of the EU then better to fold.And Netanyahu should do well to raise the level of his reaction against the EU ” kulturkampf” and to finger at the root of this rage: Voltaire-Goethe-Hegel