Yes We Can’t Get Other Countries to Defeat ISIS
US asked Indonesia to send troops to fight Islamic State, says former Jakarta foreign minister
David Wroe 29 June 2015 Via The Sydney Morning Herald
Indonesia’s former foreign minister Marty Natalegawa prefers the USA do all the heavy lifting. [Source: AFP]
(One rejection among many, I’m sure. Indonesia of all places. The ‘ask’ list must be growing short for boots on the ground. So I ask, why the hell should the US commit our young brave troops to yet another Mideast meat grinder? – LS)
Indonesia was asked by the United States to send troops to join the fight against the Islamic State terror group in Iraq but declined because it feared a backlash among radical Muslims at home, the country’s former foreign minister has revealed.
Marty Natalegawa, the long-serving top envoy under Jakarta’s previous administration, said Indonesia felt it could better contribute by tackling its own domestic extremism problem, whereas sending forces would be “cosmetic”.
Despite Washington’s eagerness to pull together as broad a coalition as possible to fight the terror group, the US had accepted Jakarta’s refusal, Dr Natalegawa said at an event at the Australian National University’s Crawford School.
“When Indonesia was asked to join in the coalition of forces to fight ISIS on the ground at one time, our response at that time was our best contribution to fighting the ISIS menace would be to ensure such an ideology, such a menace, does not proliferate in what is the world’s largest Muslim-populated country,” he said, using an alternative acronym for the group.
“That to us is a more meaningful contribution … Having to join such an effort to simply make up the numbers … makes for a wonderful photo opportunity whenever these friends or groups meet in Geneva or some other European capitals, but it can create a backlash, an unintended backlash, back home.”
Dr Natalegawa did not name the US. But asked which country had made the request of Jakarta, he joked: “Who would be the main proponent of the gathering of [countries]? So that country would be the one.”
The US pulled together a broad coalition including many Muslim countries in the Middle East. While deciding the Islamic State group needed to be stopped, the Obama administration was wary of creating perceptions of another Western invasion of Iraq.
Dr Natalegawa continued: “To be fair, the country concerned got the point that we could do far more by addressing our own internal situation rather than deploying just for superficial, cosmetic, perception purposes of this small number of troops.”
His mention of fighting “on the ground” apparently refers to a request for trainers or advisory troops, as Washington has so far refused to get involved in ground combat in Iraq.
Australia is the second-largest contributor to the fight against the Islamic State after the US, having sent about 500 training and advising troops, as well as about 400 RAAF forces as part of an air campaign.
RAAF Hornets are carrying out bombing raids, while air-to-air tankers are refuelling coalition aircraft and a Wedgetail radar plane is helping co-ordinate the air campaign.
(Excerpts from CNN article dated FEB 14, 2015 – LS)
http://www.cnn.com/2014/10/06/world/meast/isis-coalition-nations/
Six months into the conflict, this is the coalition against ISIS:
Australia: Australia has participated in airstrikes and humanitarian missions in Iraq, and has sent special forces and other troops to help train Iraqi security forces in first aid, explosive hazards, urban combat and working dog programs. NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND.
Belgium: The country has conducted airstrikes against ISIS targets, according to U.S. Central Command. NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND.
Canada: Its warplanes have flown 310 sorties against ISIS targets as of February 11, the Canadian armed forces reported. Canadian aircraft have also flown dozens of aerial refueling and reconnaissance missions in support of the anti-ISIS fight, and its cargo aircraft have been used to deliver military aid from Albania and the Czech Republic, the Canadian military said. NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND
Denmark: It has conducted airstrikes against ISIS targets, according to U.S. Central Command. NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND
Egypt: The country struck ISIS targets in Libya on Monday after the group reportedly executed 21 Egyptian Christians, and called on anti-ISIS coalition partners to do the same, saying the group poses a threat to international safety and security. Egypt had previously agreed to join the anti-ISIS coalition, but details about its role, if any, have been scarce. POSSIBLE BOOTS UNCONFIRMED
France: French planes have taken part in airstrikes against ISIS in Iraq, and the nation has flown reconnaissance flights over Iraq, contributed ammunition and made humanitarian drops over the nation. NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND
Germany: Although it has declined to participate in airstrikes, Germany has provided Kurdish forces in Iraq with $87 million worth of weapons and other military equipment, along with a handful of troops to help with training, German broadcaster Deutsche Welle reported. NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND
Italy: It has sent weapons and ammunition valued at $2.5 million to Kurdish fighters in Iraq, along with 280 troops to help train them, according to Foreign Policy magazine. NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND
Iraqi Kurdistan: The Kurdish fighting force, the Peshmerga, is battling ISIS on the ground. BOOTS ON THE GROUND!!
Jordan: The country initially joined in airstrikes against ISIS but suspended its participation when one of its aircraft went down in Syria, leading to the capture of pilot Lt. Moath al-Kasasbeh. NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND
Netherlands: The Dutch government sent F-16 fighter jets to bomb ISIS targets and troops to help train Kurdish forces. NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND
Qatar: The small but rich Gulf nation that hosts one of the largest American bases in the Middle East has flown a number of humanitarian flights, State Department officials said. NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND
Saudi Arabia: The kingdom has sent warplanes to strike ISIS targets in Syria and agreed to host efforts to train moderate Syrian rebels to fight ISIS. NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND
Turkey: Though the NATO member initially offered only tacit support for the coalition, Turkey’s government in 2014 authorized the use of military force against terrorist organizations, including ISIS, as the militant group’s fighters took towns just south of Turkey’s border. NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND
United Arab Emirates: Like its ally Jordan, the UAE initially took part in anti-ISIS airstrikes — the country’s first female fighter pilot led one of the missions. NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND
United Kingdom: The UK began airstrikes against ISIS in October, hitting targets four days after its Parliament approved its involvement. British planes helped Kurdish troops who were fighting ISIS in northwestern Iraq, dropping a bomb on an ISIS heavy weapon position and shooting a missile at an armed pickup, the UK’s Defence Ministry said. Since then, warplanes have struck targets in Iraq dozens of times, and British planes had been involved in reconnaissance missions over that country. The British military is also helping train Kurdish Peshmerga and has sent advisers to help Iraqi commanders. Britain has also pledged more than $60 million in humanitarian aid. NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND
Other nations: Also participating in one way or another are the Arab League and the European Union as well as the nations of Albania, Andorra, Austria, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Bulgaria, Croatia, Cyprus, the Czech Republic, Estonia, Finland, Georgia, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Ireland, Japan, Kosovo, Kuwait, Latvia, Lebanon, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Macedonia, Malta, Moldova, Montenegro, Morocco, New Zealand, Norway, Oman, Panama, Poland, Portugal, South Korea, Romania, Serbia, Singapore, Slovakia, Slovenia, Somalia, Spain, Sweden, Taiwan and Ukraine. NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND
Some countries — such as Kuwait — are providing bases. Some, like Albania, the Czech Republic and Hungary, have sent weapons and ammunition. Others are providing humanitarian support, taking legal steps to curb recruitment or providing other, unspecified aid. NO BOOTS ON THE GROUND
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WarSclerotic 
July 8, 2015 at 3:40 PM
Yees , how will that comes “?
What a freaking bunch of idiots are ruling the USA at the moment.
Obama to Pentagon: We can’t defeat ISIS w/guns
https://warsclerotic.wordpress.com/2015/07/07/obama-to-pentagon-we-cant-defeat-isis-wguns/
But Indonesian islamic guns will work ?
He needs to higher up his dose of anti psychotic medication , he is losing it more and more by the day .
July 8, 2015 at 3:49 PM
You have to finish what you have started .
Charlie Wilson,Operation Cyclone , just to bring 1 of the many up .
July 8, 2015 at 4:28 PM
Your anti-American bias is showing. You’ve commented in the past that ISIS and Hamas should be left to battle each other, but now you say we have to finish the job. So what’s it going to be?
July 8, 2015 at 4:44 PM
Your intellectual dishonesty makes it not worthy for me to give a substantial reaction on your comment.
Learn first to separate facts and opinion.
July 8, 2015 at 4:47 PM
Just as I thought.
July 8, 2015 at 5:09 PM
LS, Joop has put his antiamerican bias out in cyberspace for all to see. No sense beating your head against the wall with this one. He’s just a cranky 😠 old nihilist in a jungle🌲🌳🌴 hideaway.🙈🙉🙊
July 8, 2015 at 5:28 PM
Thanks JP.
July 8, 2015 at 9:29 PM
I ask your permission to reply to your comment.
Ain’t that nice ?
July 8, 2015 at 9:39 PM
Freedom of speech Joop, have at it….
July 8, 2015 at 10:10 PM
To do so would be intellectually dishonest.
July 8, 2015 at 10:59 PM
You are so funny , at childish level , do you need more lines , need more help ?
Fight the facts bro, not me , a challenge, but easy peasy for you .
July 8, 2015 at 11:19 PM
No thanks, Joop.
July 8, 2015 at 11:22 PM
I know it , but take it as a hard love, fact are nasty, aren’t they ?
July 8, 2015 at 11:32 PM
I hand you over a bridge but i can not let you walk .
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jjNgn4r6SOA
July 8, 2015 at 11:34 PM
Facts are good. It’s the ones who twist the facts that are nasty. Besides, I’m a bit concerned about your ‘hard’ love.
July 9, 2015 at 12:03 AM
Well, there we have a challenge , challenge me on the facts , any of them , when i,am wrong i will stand direct corrected.
Do not fear my hard love it only hurts your brain .
July 8, 2015 at 11:35 PM
Thanks for the thoughtful song. Will you be sending roses?
July 8, 2015 at 11:53 PM
O well, if you insist on it it, it is legalized now !
But please do not do a bare naked gay parade, i accept but do not respect .
Sorry LS i can not comply with you latent feelings, do you miss the experience , the feeling not to be sure , the longing to know, suppressed by your indoctrinated self esteem , not evolved from out yourself inner being .
O yeh , FREEDOM .
I do not have any doubts , i know.
Still wanna have the roses ?
I know , live is a bitch, you have to sorted our by yourself , only not in the USA it is already done for you.
Freedom for the people, but born in a jail you are not able to see the bars .
July 9, 2015 at 1:06 AM
“Fight the facts bro,” Who’s facts Joop? Yours? We all have facts Joop, but how factual are they. Watch CNN then FOXNEWS, they’ll report on the same news piece each with their few of the facts. So Joop I say to you, facts are in the eyes of the beholder. That’s why we have a judicial system in this country and referees at sporting events. So Joop, I ask you who is really being dishonest here with the “facts”?
July 9, 2015 at 7:04 AM
You are dishonest, if you compare the facts i,am bringing in with the “facts “from the quality msms.
You are trying to wiggle you a way out .
Intellectual dishonesty .
did it happened ? Charlie wilson operation cyclone, yes or no .
July 9, 2015 at 4:07 AM
What’s the matter Joop. You can’t take a joke? Besides, what’s a Dutchman doing living in the jungle? Hiding from something?
July 9, 2015 at 6:00 AM
My answer was a ( cynical ) joke to, my dutch humor, but i see you didn’t got it .
What i,am doing in the jungle, well that is easy, counting monkeys and looking at cows behinds, days work.
Hiding ? no not really, just far enough from the blast zones , I have trust in the human stupidity .
July 8, 2015 at 7:10 PM
Former CIA Bureau Chief Clare Lopez: “ISIS were trained by the United States in Jordan” http://tinyurl.com/nsqerh3
Secret Pentagon Report Proves US Complicity In Creation Of ISIS http://tinyurl.com/neuz8p8
ISIS & A.Q Outed As U.S. Proxies in Syria http://wp.me/p2iCeU-1jI
If quoting these reports qualifies as “Anti-American” then so is the Pentagon & CIA’s Clare Lopez.
July 8, 2015 at 8:50 PM
“The secret Pentagon document thus provides extraordinary confirmation that the US-led coalition currently fighting ISIS, had three years ago welcomed the emergence of an extremist “Salafist Principality” in the region as a way to undermine Assad, and block off the strategic expansion of Iran.”
Assuming this is accurate, to me, it’s another example of damned if you do, damned if you don’t. I remember it being billed as a necessary evil to take down Assad, an enemy and threat to Israel and many others, a tyrant using chemical weapons on his own people and others.
Maybe someone else should have taken the initiative.
July 8, 2015 at 9:24 PM
If you care about my country, Israel, don’t listen to Juan McCain, listen to us. McCain, Hillary, Graham etc. are no friends of Israel, they are sock-puppets of Saudi Arabia and Turkey.
We do not need another gang of Jihadis on our borders…now we have thanks to US funding and training of ISIS-Al Nusra FSA .(known to Americans as “McCain’s heroes)
July 8, 2015 at 9:36 PM
Actually, I care a lot about Israel. That’s why I dedicate so much time to this site. That being said, I do not care about McCain, Hillary, Graham, and the rest of the RINO leftists commie bastards in this country nor do a large number of other like-minded people here in the USA.
McCain lied about border enforcement to get reelected. Hillary lies about everything, Graham is a fake conservative, etc. Whoever pulls their strings is no friend of the of American people. We don’t endorse their acts and are working to remove them from positions for power.
These self-serving bastards care not for Jihadis. They only care about their power. They are no heroes of mine and most other Americans. They will sell you out in a heartbeat if it serves them well.
I’m confident that America will continue it’s huge support for Israel long after these clowns are relegated to the trash bin of history.
July 8, 2015 at 11:12 PM
Support for Israel , allowing to let Iran go nuclear, because it is good for the business .
The eu is the same .
July 8, 2015 at 11:30 PM
Not me Joop. A lot of us Americans have suffered loss of loved ones in the military that can be traced back to Iran. Besides, Iran is allowing itself to go nuclear, along with all the other countries who may come under their threat. No agreement is going to stop them and you know it.
July 9, 2015 at 12:07 AM
You know my point in this and that is an opinion, not a fact,, bomb the living sh1t our of their nuke installations, why, because the rhetoric they using and their ideology, a pure danger to the rest of the world.
July 8, 2015 at 4:34 PM
Reblogged this on Boudica2015 and commented:
Yes We Can’t Get Other Countries to Defeat ISIS
July 8, 2015 at 6:04 PM
actually, i find myself in agreement with Marty Natelegawa. it seems to me that with the exception of the UK, it was the USA that had done the vast bulk of the heavy lifting throughout the WOT I think that former FM Marty hit the nail on the head. Indonesia is an important strategic and trading partner for the USA, and keeping the archipelago stable, is probably far more significant to US and western interests, rather than sending a battalion of reconstruction specialists to Iraq or Afghanistan, to build a few schools. that WOULD be cosmetic, and I value the frankness and realism of former FM Marty!
July 8, 2015 at 11:18 PM
Yep,supporting communist like Sukarno , topper, oil and something more , but what the heck do you know about Indonesia .
Shell, American Petrol ?
July 8, 2015 at 11:32 PM
What is your problem Joop? Your chronic nastiness suggests to me that you can’t handle your Yonge Genever . However much, or little, I know about Indonesia doesn’t pertain to the discussion. “Politics makes strange bedfellows”, as someone else once said. My point was simply that I agreed with what former FM Marty what’s his name said, that an Indonesian presence in Iraq or Afghanistan would’ve been mere window dressing, and would likely have fomented fundamentalist Islamic outrage on the archipelago, outrage of the Bali bombing and head chopping type.
It was as simple as that. Your alcohol induced anger blew things up. Your out of control rage is not that much different than that which originates from within the Jihadism that we’re trying to discuss. It would do you much good to take up a different form of recreation.
July 8, 2015 at 11:58 PM
O well, we the dutch where fighting the communist and have to give it up under USA pressure, what we could not refuse in that time .
But that is of course complete different than Vietnam and Cambodia !
My recreation is slapping your guys with facts around the ears .
And now you still do not get it .
PS: i don’t do jenever, but a 12 years Mac Callan aged on cherry oak barrels will do .
July 9, 2015 at 1:20 AM
“My recreation is slapping your guys with facts around the ears.”
Joop, there you go again. I must say, you look very silly 🃏claiming to be the lord high commissioner of facts. Let me let you in on a secret, you don’t have all the “facts”.
PS I see you’re still making friends.
July 9, 2015 at 6:15 AM
Correct i do not have all the facts but that make it easy for you to contradict the facts i,am bringing in.
By the way it are not my facts .
But you are still coming back with hollow words and platitudes .
Friends making has no importance for me here, another one of your brilliant comments, no my friend, just to get you reading up on o.a your country historical proven facts , i know it is like seeding on non fertile ground .
But all hope is not lost, must be my nihilistic part of personality what makes me doing it.
July 9, 2015 at 2:38 PM
your nihilism surely consumes a lot of energy, that you could put to use doing something worthwhile for yourself. i don’t see where your reflexive combativeness is making anything better. i do appreciate that you’re arguing in a language that is not your mother tongue, and i know how difficult that is.
July 9, 2015 at 3:50 PM
If we are not are honest about our past we can not progress to a better world.
Worth wile for myself, mm, done that a long time not longer necessary.
July 9, 2015 at 4:39 AM
joop, somewhere inside you, i believe, there is a funny guy, who has good things to share. i like the dutch. friendly, open minded, basically kind people. it has been ugly, and unpleasant, to be a witness during the end times of european colonialism. once native populations managed to get hold of modern weapons, the game was up for the european powers in ASIA. THE BRITISH WERE SMARTEST. they got out, but maintained a geostrategic/economic footprint in brunei, hong kong, singapore, maybe other spots that i don’t know about. dutch and french left all behind and went home. Portuguese hung on with macao. USA was big and powerful and rich enough to pur in troops, time after time, and make the natives pay a steep price. henry kissinger carved a pretty good deal with the Chinese, in order to get something out of viet nam/cambodia. it was a good deal for everyone, except for the south vietnamese and cambodian allies of the USA.
July 9, 2015 at 6:45 AM
The British where kicked out and left a big mess, the dutch had to give up under USA financial pressure, we had to go along, our country was still in a full rebuilding state after WWII .
We left not all behind we still had the west indies and still have a part , we had to give up the east indies after 350 years !
I,am not funny, i,am like a pit bull if we debating things, john kerry is funny at the negotiating table .
July 9, 2015 at 2:35 PM
ok, your not funny. the dutch were colonial masters in malaysia for 150 years. what precipitated the dutch departure from msia, and their replacement by the british? are portions of your country now dominated by former colonial subjects?
July 9, 2015 at 4:36 PM
We have exchanged Malakka for Bengkulu whit the Brits to get a free hand to concur the rest of Sumatra (The Atjeh wars, had to look this up, memory is getting a bit rusty )
About domination.
No, absolute not, a lot of people from the former colonies came over to The Netherlands and blended perfectly in , that was easy for them because we had already a considerable amount of Indonesian people in the Netherlands .
And we where already used to each others different cultures trough the many years of Indonesian colonization .
A thing worth to mention, is that we ruled that part of the world whit a amazing amount of island whit a few Dutch people, we give the local tribe chiefs ( the Raden Mas )authority as long as they send of 20% of the requested products ( the culture system )
Read this book , about the decay of a ones mighty colonial force, started as 2 private company,s , the west and the east indie company .
Read this book, translated into english
The Hidden Force
Novel by Louis Couperus
http://www.letterenfonds.nl/en/book/94/the-hidden-force
Can not find a movie version in englisch
But i have found this for you, .Dutch movie English subtitles .
The Max Havelaar
They gave us a part of their culture what we call now our culture , very noticeable with the food, Indonesian food is as common as European food in the Netherlands we even prepare it at home and as fast food , i grow up with it .( not only )
This people where and are highly appreciated.
The same for Chinese people, we have them for more than a hundred years in our country, ( in the beginning some problems around 1920 or so )
There is so much to tell about this and about dutch banking and so on.
But we have now a real big problem , the influx of a primitive barbaric culture , the islaam . a tsunami of backwardness.
Domination not yet but on all fronts they wrestle them in with help from our delusional government , like the rest of the western world.
Call it the 5th collone , conquering by demographic process .
And they getting more and more Islamic privileges.
The Netherlands has 190 different nationality’s in the country, born and grow up with it .
My nihilism reach only out to the actions of human kind, not personally , life is good for me .
But as i said before i have trust in the human stupidity, that is why i,am counting monkeys in the jungle .
Feel free to ask for info any time , i have some time to spare and have a descent knowledge and a fast mouse .
July 9, 2015 at 4:03 PM
What point? As a self proclaimed nihilist you have no point at all.
“Nihilism (/ˈnaɪ.ɨlɪzəm/ or /ˈniː.ɨlɪzəm/; from the Latin nihil, nothing) is a philosophical doctrine that suggests the negation of one or more reputedly meaningful aspects of life. The Greek philosopher and Sophist, Gorgias (ca. 485 BCE–380 BCE), is perhaps the first to consider the Nihilistic belief. Most commonly, nihilism is presented in the form of existential nihilism, which argues that life is without objective meaning, purpose, or intrinsic value.[1] Moral nihilists assert that morality does not inherently exist, and that any established moral values are abstractly contrived. Nihilism can also take epistemological or ontological/metaphysical forms, meaning respectively that, in some aspect, knowledge is not possible, or that reality does not actually exist.
The term is sometimes used in association with anomie to explain the general mood of despair at a perceived POINTLESSNESS of existence that one may develop upon realising there are no necessary norms, rules, or laws.[2] Movements such as Futurism and deconstruction,[3] among others, have been identified by commentators as “nihilistic” at various times[when?] in various contexts[which?].”
July 9, 2015 at 4:55 PM
Thanks JP, the USA is according your given definition nihilistic, so my nihilistic thinking about the future of the USA and the rest of the western world ,strongly intertwined , is correct.
everything goes as long as it is for the profit .
July 9, 2015 at 5:01 PM
So….how is all this going to stop Iran from getting the bomb? Like you Joop, I guess I could always retreat to the swamp and count gators and snakes. 🙂
July 9, 2015 at 5:33 PM
I told you before , bomb the living daylight out of their nuke installations.
Do it now or do it later, ( to late )
Iranian nukes are not endangering the USA directly at the moment, the distance is to big , enough warning time .
It is Israel and the rest of the middle east who are in direct danger and that can be the start for something bigger.( and Europe )
Knowing historical facts does not take away common sense to protect our self, but it give a perspective about the failures , a learning process , but again i,am rather nihilistic about that learning .
Well ,a nice little retreat in the swamps would be nice , snake is good , gator tail also .
Watch this Dutch movie , subtitled English
The Max Havelaar , about our learning process and mistakes .
July 9, 2015 at 5:13 PM
Joop, it’s clear to me you have juvenile, primitive ideas on what makes the world go round. I think hiding away in the jungle counting monkey butts is probably best for you. Let the adults out in the real world struggle with the difficult matters of life and future.
July 9, 2015 at 6:08 PM
Be happy that your US kids as soldier will be killed by USA made and sold or given by the USA weapons , just for profit and hegemony .
But is is for humanity and democracy , yep if you believe in it .
That is the exceptional shining house on the hill .
I do not like it, i like to see this changed , if that makes me juvenile, so be it .
July 10, 2015 at 1:24 AM
Joop, you say, well Israel is just a small country there only so much it could do. To that I say, tell that to its citizens when the barbarians are breaking down the gates to murder them!
“If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed;
if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may
come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves.”
― Winston S. Churchill
July 10, 2015 at 1:37 AM
I do not have to tell them anything they know it .
July 10, 2015 at 1:26 AM
LS, having the last word is no big deal. Any dope can drop down any drivel to have it.
July 10, 2015 at 1:38 AM
This comment shows your intellectual level, posting drivels .
July 10, 2015 at 1:41 AM
Case in point!
July 9, 2015 at 12:04 AM
I do not have a problem, but you guys have a big problem, and that is what i,am trying to get trough the thick skulls, with facts .
I,am not sure about your thinking process, but for making an reasonable conclusion after an thinking process you need first information .
You may ask for information or an opinion, that are 2 different things, but i,am sure you will know that, but admitting is different, nasty facts , screw up the whole narrative .
July 9, 2015 at 1:32 AM
“I do not have a problem, but you guys have a big problem, and that is what i,am trying to get trough the thick skulls, with facts.”
Oy vey Joop, every time you open your mouth… And you’re putting this stuff out for the whole world to see now and in perpetuity.😱😱😱
July 9, 2015 at 6:20 AM
JP, it never happened Charlie wilson operation cyclone, ? , are you telling me that now, come on bro be a man an stand for your words,did it happen or not ? , simple answer , yes or no .
Contradict me just for ones on the facts instead reacting as a little child .
Yes or no ?
July 9, 2015 at 1:10 PM
“Operation Cyclone was the code name for the United States Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) program to arm and finance the Afghan mujahideen prior to and during the Soviet war in Afghanistan, from 1979 to 1989. The program leaned heavily towards supporting militant Islamic groups that were favoured by neighbouring Pakistan, rather than other, less ideological Afghan resistance groups that had also been fighting the Marxist-oriented Democratic Republic of Afghanistan regime since before the Soviet intervention[citation needed]. Operation Cyclone was one of the longest and most expensive covert CIA operations ever undertaken;[1] funding began with $20–$30 million per year in 1980 and rose to $630 million per year in 1987.[2] Funding continued after 1989 as the mujahideen battled the forces of Mohammad Najibullah’s PD”
What’s your point? Major players around the world use clandestine operations to attain goals, Russia, China and of course Israel.
Your antiamerican bias is once again exposed.
July 9, 2015 at 3:47 PM
Thanks for your answer, now we have establish a fact .
From we Americans are not doing this kind of things to everybody do this kind of things , we are making progress.
Got the point ??
July 9, 2015 at 7:11 PM
“I told you before , bomb the living daylight out of their nuke installations.
Do it now or do it later, ( to late )
Iranian nukes are not endangering the USA directly at the moment, the distance is to big , enough warning time .
It is Israel and the rest of the middle east who are in direct danger”
It’s already too late. Joop direct your angst against Neville Netanyahu, it’s he that future historians will heap blame on for the Iranian bomb and the wars that follow. It is written!
July 9, 2015 at 8:10 PM
For a part , but is the USA not the force who keeps Israel from taking action ?
For an action of this magnitude Israel needs back up, and that is not sure .
Do you think Iran will retaliate , with the political climate in the white house at the moment, i,am darn sure they will.
The USA will not go to WW III for backing up Israel, that in my opinion, not a fact .
Back up from the EU, o well , forget that bunch of sleaze balls .
And to late can be correct , i,am hanging to that point to, after a deal it will be nearly impossible, than is it waiting for the first strike ,and at how the rest of the middle east will react on a “deal “.
Israel sits between a rock and a hard spot.
It is just a very small country , who can do only so much .
July 9, 2015 at 8:26 PM
I hope you realize, JP, that Joop will absolutely-never-without-exception let you have the last word. 🙂
July 9, 2015 at 10:18 PM
🙂 🙂 🙂
July 9, 2015 at 10:56 PM
Last word.
July 9, 2015 at 11:19 PM
Oeroeg (Going Home) 1993 FULL MOVIE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BwqO8ur7NZ0&list=PLF3nCc__BXf9jNAKUGmlouwb8VUmfetZH&index=3
A gem , English subtitled, Dutch movie about our learning curve , our Vietnam, about mistakes and dutch exceptional thinking .
1946 -1947 our military action in Indonesia.
Are i,am now bashing The Netherlands LS and JP ?
July 8, 2015 at 6:45 PM
An Israeli opinion:
Here we go again. While the residents of what used to be “America” have allowed their “InfoTainment” Media to convince them that the U.S. is “fighting” the Islamic State, the rest of the world knows the truth….the American Administration continues to thwart regional attempts to defend against ISIS.
July 8, 2015 at 9:04 PM
Being a resident of what I still call “America”, I have to say that informed people here who take the time to follow current events and have a conservative attitude know Obama’s fight is a farce. I doubt that the rest of the world knows the truth any more than we here in “America.”
As for thwarting attempts to defend one’s self against ISIS, I find that a bit hard to believe. While Obama is not fully committed, I doubt that folks are forced to fail in defending themselves with the resources they possess.
July 8, 2015 at 9:29 PM
The links are in the article;
US warning against ME states defending themselves against ISIS (Islamic State)
US blocks attempts by Arab allies to fly heavy weapons directly to Kurds to fight Islamic State
Egypt and UAE teamed up to launch secret airstrikes in Libya, enraging U.S. diplomats: officials
July 8, 2015 at 9:45 PM
How do you prevent someone from defending themselves? I’m a bit baffled about that one. As for the Kurds, no one would like to see them more heavily armed than me. I’ve read, however, that they do receive light weapons and other support from our military. Being a member of NATO along with Turkey (unfortunately) does present some problems with helping the Kurds. As for Libya, the State Department seems to be particularly engaged in the events therein. Seems Egypt and UAE are upsetting something they will not divulge. I do have a big problem with the State Department, Hillary, and Benghazi. Don’t trust them. Who wouldn’t.
July 8, 2015 at 10:17 PM
Steve, you seem like a nice guy….why don’t you come and spend some time in this neighbourhood (Israel & environs ) and try to understand that what you are told in the US is not always correct and without a pro-Saudi agenda. (Failing that, I could put you in touch with Clare Lopez who has surely seen the light).
July 8, 2015 at 10:41 PM
Thanks for the invite Skip. At my age, I don’t travel much any more. I would miss the grandchildren too much. They’re still at that cuddly age and you know how they grow up so fast.
I do understand that many sources of news are not always unbiased, but I visit a wide range of news sites around the world. That’s the beauty of the internet. You are not locked into a local set of sources.
Heck, I remember that the only sources we had years ago were ABC, NBC, and CBS all broadcasting their version of the 6:00 news with folks like Cronkite, Huntley, and Brinkley. Now that was what ‘being told’ was all about. Now things are a bit better, but still an information minefield.
July 8, 2015 at 7:51 PM
Canada does have ground troops in Iraq. The Conservative gov’t. of Stephen Harper was attacked for this by leftwingers who don’t care if ISIS wins. The leader of the Liberals, Justin Trudeau, was mocked by Canadians for saying that we need to send warm clothing instead of planes and ground troops (as though the civilians are too stupid to know how to dress in their own country).
Canadian Special Forces (JTF1) are supposedly only training Peshmerga “behind the wire.” But one Canadian was killed, and three wounded, RETURNING to behind the wire.
The bigotry of the leftwinger press is well known. Its ignorance, not as well known. Those troops, returning to the “observation post” — you’d think that was safe haven, and the Special Forces were safely “behind front lines”. So how far behind front lines (as though in a guerrilla war there are front lines!) how far are these observation posts. Twenty, thirty miles?? What are they then observing?
The Canadian leftwingers wanted JTF1 to train the Kurds in, like Switzerland, where there was little danger (although it is very scary to our anti-gun nuts that there’s a firearm in every Swiss home.)
“The troops, who were training local forces, had just returned to an observation post behind the front line when they were mistakenly fired upon by Kurdish peshmerga fighters.”
http://tinyurl.com/oflj4om
PETE
July 8, 2015 at 9:08 PM
Covert operations are probably taking place and we may never know the amount of commitment by our coalition friends.
July 8, 2015 at 9:33 PM
Israeli intel available only to US dangled as bait for Arabs to join …
http://www.debka.com/article/24256/Israeli-intel-available-only-to-US-dangled-as-bait-for-Arabs-to-join-Obama%E2%80%99s-anti-IS-coalition
The article “Israeli intel available only to US dangled as bait for Arabs to join Obama’s anti-IS coalition”
July 8, 2015 at 9:38 PM
Here’s a better link: https://warsclerotic.wordpress.com/2014/09/09/israeli-intel-available-only-to-us-dangled-as-bait-for-arabs-to-join-obamas-anti-is-coalition/
It doesn’t seem to be a gesture of “solidarity” with the Jewish State.
July 8, 2015 at 9:51 PM
Again, I do not support Obama’s politics and am looking forward to the day he leaves office. If you’re looking for solidarity, take a look at all the support as taxpayers we provide to Israel. Meanwhile, I’m sure Mossad adjusted it’s level of shared info accordingly.
July 8, 2015 at 11:08 PM
The taxpayers get it back in commerce, or not that is your problem, and the info where all the might of the USA is not able to, and save guarding US interest in the middle east,and that is moving around a bit the last years.
It is not for free, you have to pay for it, it is named a deal , you know it well, deals .
July 8, 2015 at 11:26 PM
Not sure I understand what you are trying to say, Joop. Actually, I think I agree with what you may be saying. We have a great deal with Israel built upon our Judeo Christian values, mutual trade, and exchange of technology. While I have nothing to sell to Israel, I’m enriched by our friendship.
July 9, 2015 at 12:08 AM
I do common sense !
July 8, 2015 at 9:47 PM
Link blocked by Debka. Available for subscribers only.
July 8, 2015 at 10:10 PM
Here’s a viable link; https://warsclerotic.wordpress.com/2014/09/09/israeli-intel-available-only-to-us-dangled-as-bait-for-arabs-to-join-obamas-anti-is-coalition/
July 8, 2015 at 10:30 PM
Thanks.